Rose, Rose

DESCRIPTION: Round. "Rose, rose, rose, rose, Shall I ever see thee red? Aye, marry, that thou will, If thou but stay." Or, "Rose, rose, rose, rose, Shall I ever see thee wed, I will marry at thy desire, At thy will
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1939 (Tobitt-YoursForASong)
KEYWORDS: flowers marriage nonballad campsong
FOUND IN:
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs, pp. 346, 348, 432, 447-454, 501-502, "Rose, Rose"/"Rose" (notes, plus 7 texts, mostly of a single verse, on pp. 452-454; bibliography on pp. 694-697)
Tobitt-TheDittyBag, p. 159, "Rose, Rose" (1 text, 1 tune)
Tobitt-YoursForASong, p. 49, "Rose, Rose" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, ROSEROSE*
RECORDINGS:
Judy Cook, Dennis Cook, "Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose/Ah, Poor Bird" (Piotr-Archive #602, recorded 06/08/2023; medley of "Rose, Rose " and "Ah, Poor Bird," with the first sung to the tune of the "Souling Song")
SAME TUNE:
America, America (File: ACSF449A)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Peace, Peace
Love, Love
NOTES [431 words]: The lyrics on this seem very unfixed (it's not even clear whether it's "Rose, rose, rose, rose" or "Rows, rows, rows, rows" or "Row, row, row, row"). I would guess this is because the likely source text, Tobitt's, has no rhymes at all. The tune is also unusual. It's marked with no sharps or flats, starts on A, ends on the E below it, highest note is the E an octave above that, and uses a G# in the first measure (and no G naturals). So it's in A natural minor ending on the fifth. The internal harmonics are interesting too. It reminds me a bit of "Hey, Ho, Nobody Home," if you ignore the G#. I spotted this independently of the mention on p. 448 of Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs.
Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs, p. 449, lists three derivative songs, "America, America," "Love, Love," and "Peace, Peace." The text I found of these gives them all as additional verses of "Rose, Rose"; I have indexed "America, America" separately because it is listed as the most popular, but I've skipped the others. The lyrics are as follows:
-- "America, America":
America, America,
Shall we tell you how we feel?
You have given us your riches,
We love you so.
-- "Love, Love":
Love, love, love, love,
The gospel in one word is love,
Love thy neighbor as they brother
And we'll have love
-- "Peace, Peace":
Peace, peace, peace, peace,
War will come and war will cease,
Love thy brother as thyself
And we'll have peace.
There is also a "Friend, friend, friend, friend" verse:
Friend, friend, friend, friend,
You have stood beside me forever
Someday soon I'll return the favor
You are my friend.
Also a "Ding, dong, ding, dong" verse about wedding bells, and the "Soul, soul, soul, soul" verse of "Hey, ho, nobody home."
Averill's version "G" has the three texts ("America, America," "Peace, Peace," and "Love, Love") together but does not include the "Rose, Rose" lyric. A complex conundrum.
Averill-CampSongsFolkSongs, p. 448, reports that someone claimed that this is about the Wars of the Roses, suggesting that the line "Shall I ever see thee red?" was a question by a Lancastrian who wanted to overthrow the White Rose of York. This is extremely unlikely even if you ignore the fact that "The Wars of the Roses" is a modern title. Yes, the Yorkists had a white rose emblem -- but the Lancastrians did not use a rose emblem; it wasn't until the Tudor era that the red rose meant anything. And the rose emblems weren't important to either side even after the Tudors took over. The whole business of picking a colored rose to pick a side is from Henry VI, Part 1 (Act ii, scene iv), not from history. - RBW
Last updated in version 6.3
File: ACSF346R

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